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The Virginia chapter of the National Association of Scholars has requested admissions data regarding race from the University of Virginia. UVa is considering how much data to release, but in its article today on the request the Charlottesville Daily Progress provides some disturbing data:

UVa received 15,094 freshman applications this year, including 1,018 from black students. UVa accepted 4,724 students in March; 582 are black. They must accept or decline the invitation by the beginning of May.

[ADDENDUM, 9/7/14: The link to the Charlottesville Daily Progress article quoted here has been removed because the article is no longer available online. In fact, NO old Daily Progress article is any longer?available online.] If these numbers are correct, then:

  • 7% of the applicants were black;
  • 12.3% of the admittees were black;
  • 29.4% of the non-black applicants were admitted;
  • 57.1% of the black applicants were admitted.

What does UVa say about these numbers? UVa’s dean of all things black, M. Rick Turner, pointed once again to “the university’s 87% black graduation rate, the highest of all American public universities.”

“Every African-American student gets accepted into the University of Virginia for the same reasons anyone gets accepted,” he said. “They’re qualified and they fit.”

But critics of racial preference do not maintain that minority admittees are not “qualified.” The complaint is that they are held to a different, and lower, standard than other applicants. As I discussed in some detail here, the SAT scores of entering black freshman at UVa are some 200 points lower than the average for the entering class (and thus even further below the average for whites and Asians). As the Center for Equal Opportunity found in a study, discussed here, the relative odds favoring black over white applicants with the same grades and test scores at UVa was 111 to 1. As Linda Chavez, head of CEO, wrote in a Wall Street Journal OpEd (2/22/2001), “To put this in some perspective, the relative odds that a smoker compared to a non-smoker will develop lung cancer are 14 to 1.” (The CEO study can also be found on its web site, here.) Although the 87% black graduation rate at UVa is impressive, it is also true that the rate at which blacks fail to graduate at UVa is over twice as high as for non-blacks, a point discussed here.

But not to worry. Carol Wood, UVa spokesperson, assures us that “the university’s policy is within last year’s Supreme Court ruling allowing race to be considered in admissions but not to assign a specific point value to race or ethnicity in such decisions.” Race, no doubt, is just “one of many factors” the university considers.

Say What? (24)

  1. Sarah April 20, 2004 at 6:58 pm | | Reply

    Reverse discrimination is OK, because those applicants have had extra advantages all their lives and therefore should have a percentage handicap in their application for admission, as if this were a horse race or a golf game.

  2. KRM April 20, 2004 at 9:09 pm | | Reply

    I recall being displeased that I got nothing in financial aid for college (third child of a blue collar worker with a 34 ACT and 1440 SAT) while a black classmate got a full scholarship to a prestigious school (only child of an executive with Standard Oil at many multiples of my family’s income and a 1200 SAT).

    Helping poor, disadvantaged or underclass kids go to school is laudable and I support it wholeheartedly. Bestowing additional privileges on the already privileged solely based on the color of their skin is pure injustice.

    It was wrong to benefit whites this way in the past. It is wrong to benefit blacks (or whatever is the PC term du jour) now.

  3. Gyp April 21, 2004 at 1:34 am | | Reply

    “Helping poor, disadvantaged or underclass kids go to school is laudable and I support it wholeheartedly. Bestowing additional privileges on the already privileged solely based on the color of their skin is pure injustice. ”

    Unfortunatly, telling US that does little good…

  4. Stephen April 21, 2004 at 10:30 am | | Reply

    A little discussed outcome of this rigging of the game is this: Giving people something they have not earned will cause them to attach very little value to the prize.

    I see this all the time in young black people. So many white people are trying to give them something that the “gifts” have absolutely no value to the recipient. Quite often, I see them toss the supposedly valuable “gift” into the symbolic gutter.

    People do not attach value to that which they do not earn.

  5. cka3n April 21, 2004 at 11:17 am | | Reply

    The admitted consequences of being black

    To see through the haze of statistics, we’d like to find out just how much of a (predictive) role race plays in both admissions and academic success, all else being equal. Of course, that is exactly the point. In American society, things are arguably…

  6. Conrad April 21, 2004 at 4:20 pm | | Reply

    Is that 87% black graduation figure valid? It would be an outlier among such blatantly affirmative action admissions oriented schools.

    Does anyone know how they calculated that figure? I think they are engaging in some subterfuge.

  7. Andrew P. Connors April 22, 2004 at 11:17 am | | Reply

    The 87% black graduation rate statistic is valid, if you know the exact qualifications on it. For one thing, it is a well known fact at the University that blacks often take more than four years to get their degree, and at a much higher rate than other groups (i.e. there are whites that do this too, but blacks make up a significantly higher percentage.)

    Furthermore, there are significant and sustained coddling programs that make sure that this rate remains extremely high. As M. Rick Turner states (note: I refuse to call this man “Dean”), the University doesn’t “…stop after the first year. [They] continually monitor the progress of African-American students.” What exactly does this entail?

    In the School of Engineering, which I am in, the amount of academic attention (help?) given to black students is astounding. First, most black students in engineering never had taken calculus in high school; yet, according to admissions criteria, calculus is a necessary prerequisite for being admitted to engineering (at least, this is what I, a white male, was told.) Furthermore, these students, who have circumvented basic math requirements of a math intensive school all get admitted to something known as the Summer Bridge Program, officially for “underprivileged” entering freshman, but unofficially for all the blacks that were admitted without this basic understanding of math and as the University presumes, English. At this program these students are made to take a remedial class in calculus, and in addition, are allowed to take the first year engineering technical writing class, at little or no cost to them, and at a significant leg up to other students. I do a program called engineering peer advising, where I talk to incoming first year students about the ins-and-outs of the e-school, and everytime I get black students they are uninterested in listening mostly because they already have a semester’s experience under their belts. The fact that some students are given significant help in acclimating themselves to college life, while others are just cast aside – and all on the basis of race – angers me greatly.

    And it doesn’t stop there. In the e-school, black students are literally, as M. Rick Turner so poignantly stated, monitored throughout their four years. Professors are instructed to send progress reports on black students to those students’ respective faculty advisors, and in the event that they are in trouble the OAAA provides tutors and other aids, all at little or no cost to the student, once again.

    I think people need to get a very clear picture of “diversity” at work. I come from a modest background: my father served in the military for 20 years, and while now you probably could consider my family upper middle class, for most of my life we lived in military housing or near military-type communities there were by no means affluent. My father saved a lot of money over the span of his life so that when he got out he could finally get us the nice house we always wanted and so that we could live in a nice community. Now, in contrast, in my first year I lived with a black student, and his background was something like this: lived in suburbian philadelphia his entire life. His mother is a judge, his father an electrical engineer. He had a job interning for microsoft while in high school. By any standard, he is more priviliged than I. His books were completely payed for by the OAAA. Second, the real kick in the pants: he was admitted with a 2.5 GPA and a 1050 SAT. In contrast, I was admitted with a 1280 SAT and a 3.7 GPA. Of course, probably the most interesting part about this fellow is that he flunked out of UVA and now attends Temple. My point in all this is, I don’t see how “diversity” is helping any of us here. Whites see all sorts of unfair programs that in a manner of speaking, work against us, and all the while black students are admitted with lower standards and generally have a lower work ethic. In addition, most blacks simply can’t cut it, and leave with a year or two wasted. Ultimately, I can’t say that “diversity” has made my perception of blacks better, and in all likelihood it has made it much worse.

    Of course, I note a lot of things about engineering, but in truth many blacks at the University pursue much less demanding programs, like African-American Studies, Psychology, and Sociology.

    It’s no wonder that given all these reasons their graduation rate is so high.

  8. Sage April 22, 2004 at 1:04 pm | | Reply

    Are we to believe that at UVA–and ONLY at UVA–the average black applicant to the law school is twice as likely to be academically qualified as the average white student? This would be a statistical anomaly of staggering proportions.

    Which is why it’s a safer bet that, as usual, the bastards are just lying through their teeth. After all, it’s not their kids who are getting screwed.

  9. JM July 4, 2004 at 2:08 am | | Reply

    I’m so glad I attended a historically black university. It kept me from having to study with people with the same opinions as those I’m seeing on this board.I can’t believe how widespread the feeling that blacks are “getting it easy” is in the white community. The black kids you are so jealous of are only separated by one generation from their grand-parents who, had to endure a life time of racism. You all love to use even playing field argument. But if you really want to make the playing field even, strip every white person of their personal wealth and place all their children in second rate schools, and do this for about 200 hundred years. Then the playing field will be even! I’m sorry if a good white student doesn’t get into the school they desire, but affirmative action was created for a reason. To offset the affect of racism on the black community. But I guess everyone forgot about that. I mean it was 30 something years ago, and that has to be enough time to make up for the 200 and something years prior.

  10. Anonymous September 14, 2004 at 4:47 pm | | Reply

    All who contributed to this “forum” are completely stereotypical. I love how the o so common “most blacks” is used so flowingly throughout each posts. Don’t make generalizations about people, it shows you’re ignorance. While complaining about the blacks that got into college with a lower SAT score than you did, think about all the other “unfair” practices that go on at universities across the country. Next time you want to complain, think about the football star who got in with a 900 SAT, or that alumni’s daughter who got in with a 1050, but be sure not to forget the dumb black kid that got in, because he was black.

  11. Anonymous October 30, 2004 at 3:13 pm | | Reply

    Then wouldn’t a income based system for affirmative action be more effective? This would not allow the african americans who grow up in a upper middle class family to have the advantages of AA. I think it is disgusting to see blacks from upper middle class families getting into colleges through AA while the real African Americans affected by discrimination in this country, terrible schools, and living in inner cities slums do not. The income based form of AA would give advantages to the African Americans that actually deserve help! As well as the disadvantaged whites, asians, and other races that might also be affected by conditions such as poverty and terrible schools. Supporting AA for wealth African Americans is a disgusting form of racial discrimination.

  12. AN November 15, 2004 at 4:25 pm | | Reply

    The reason a football player with a 900 or the daughter of an alumnus with a 1050 would get in is one thing: MONEY

    Football and alumni contributions (aside from tuition of course) are by far the most profitable elements of a D1 school.

  13. Anonymous January 5, 2005 at 3:26 pm | | Reply

    It is discrimination to offer any advantage to anyone based on race, gender, marital status, religion, country of origin, etc. We all agreed on that when most people’s perception of discrimination was whites against everyone else. Now we have alot of other stats that some people, white, black or otherwise, would like to ignore. Most whites are working class and poor, just like most people of color. Most whites are not now and have never been economically or otherwise advantaged, regardless of the constant false claims to the opposite. Most whites have to work excruciatingly hard to get any little thing in life. Most whites did not participate in slavery. The slaves did not rebel and overthrow their masters. Most whites disagreed with slavery whether their reasons were moral or economic and fought hard to end slavery in the south. Most lives lost in the civil war were white. Slavery was not legal anywhere else in America. Consider that for a moment before reading on. Most whites do not believe in racism and do not committ racist acts. I am sick to my stomach at the constant inference that whites are all privileged racists who deserve to be discriminated against now because people of other races were in the past. Consider this. The same, usually white, minority of rich and powerful people treat us poorly, just like they do to people of color. We were discriminated against based on ALL OF THE SAME REASONS people of color were excepting only one reason…race. Now we are also discriminated against based on race by not only people of other races, but also by the whites in a position to do so. Race is not the end all and be all of having a hard time. It is not the only form of disadvantage. And having that added difficulty of race in the past absolutely positively does NOT justify the racism against whites that occurs today. If a school wants to admitt well rounded people (thus admissions favoring equally qualified people with more social interests and talents) with an GPA of 3.5 or higher, then that should be the criteria for all students. If there seems to be alot of students of one kind or another that are consistently falling short, then look into why that is and fix it before they get to college admissions. Don’t discriminate against those who qualify. I’m white and I am jealous but not offended when someone does better than me and is more qualified than I am, even if that person is more likely, for example, to be Asian. It is not discrimination for someone else to do better. It is not discrimination for a white to do better than a black. Whether it feels good or not, our society rewards greatness. The rest of us, including me, just have to accept being ordinary and working hard for a living. Whites accept this. It seems blacks do not. Purposely ignoring qualifications is racism no matter what kind of sick spin you’d like to put on it. Discriminating against whites does not help blacks and blacks need to stop being defensive about thier racism and face up to it the way white people had to 50 years ago.

  14. TT January 28, 2005 at 11:57 am | | Reply

    Is this the ante bellum south or something? No matter what side you take on the issue of affirmative action programs, you must keep one important thing in mind. Your opinions are very limited to what you have experienced in life regarding race. No, I do not think that the affirmative action policy practiced right now is the best approach, but it is, if nothing more, a good rough draft. I agree with the person who said before that affirmative action needs to benefit only those who really need it coming from poorly funded schools. This is not a trivial issue here. Finding a solution to the equality issue will take a long time and will require both sides compromising and making changes. I will say again, a decent solution will take a long time. It is highly obnoxious for anyone to presume that there is no longer racial discrimination concerning minorities, especially if you are not one yourself. Yes, it is reasonable that some are still very angry with UVa’s OAAA and affirmative action programs. But, I don’t think that it

  15. T. Barbara Moses August 24, 2005 at 1:22 pm | | Reply

    One thing that is troublesome to me is that so few here (or anywhere else for that matter) are willing to truly tell it like it is. The issues of SAT scores, IQ scores, academic performance and the like, are not things which can be debated. These are things which we have investigated, studied, and accumulated statisical evidence on, for nearly 100 years. I do not believe that it is, nor has it ever been discrimination or racism to tell the truth. For my psychology thesis, I have been investigating racial differences in SAT, ACT, and IQ scores, not only in the United States, but worldwide. Before I present the following FACTS, let me first say that I am of mixed race. I find the facts particularly devasting, as a woman of latino/black/white ancestry. However, I am far past the point of arguing with the truth. It is pointless, and would only create further embarrassment. And isn’t that amazing as well – that we minorities, even when faced with hard evidence will STILL try to argue, or make excuses? Social inequality this or disadvantaged that. BS!!!! We don’t need excuses. We need SOLUTIONS. As I said, there is no possiblity of racism in the information here (for obvious reasons). I don’t like these facts any more than the rest of you, but they simply can’t be disputed.

    So, to begin:

    1.) The SAT scores of African Americans are, on average, 200 points below that of Whites and Asians. Bear in mind, at some schools it may be 240 points lower, while at others it is only 180 points lower. This is true in EVERY state and at EVERY highschool in this ENTIRE country. I’m nto going to use the term “most”, but “on average”, African Americans and Latinos DO NOT SCORE WELL on either IQ or SAT. It makes no difference if those students are from middle class families or if they are impoverished. Countles studies have shown that poor African American students score consistently and drastically lower than equally poor white or Asian students.

    2) Hundreds of thousands of comparative reports on IQ testing, over a period of more than 70 years, offer proof that African Americans (from all areas of the globe) score 15 points or more below whites (and in Africa, the average IQ barely surpasses the standard U.S. mark for mental retardation – a score of just 70). This has not changed in several decades, despite

    the integration of all races in our public education system.

    3.) A study of over 2,000 African Americans, adopted and raised from birth by two white, upper-middle class parents DID NOT score any higher on IQ or SAT than their counterparts who were raised by two black parents.

    Now, one might suggest that these facts point to only one conclusion; African Americans, as a group, are simply not as intelligent. That would be a bold (likely incorrect) statement. I think the problem is that there is an obvious difference in the way that the races process information – basically in the way that we learn. No matter how you look at it, this creates a problem when many races are placed in the same learning environment. IQ is a measure of intelligence, no doubt. BUT, if the tests are biased as many of us claim, then why are the results (lower scores) the same, regardless of the environment (i.e. upper middle class homes and NO possiblity of being considered “disadvantaged”)? The tests can’t be biased, because the results are the same in other countries.

    I will be so brave as to say that I have a rough idea of what we need to do. Since we all process and apply information differently, we should be afforded (“we” meaning all races) teaching methods specifically structured to the INDIVIDUAL, and not concentrate so heavily on standard educational requirements. I doubt this will happen any time soon, as school budgets will not allow it, but it is something to consider.

    As for the entrance of lower scoring students, simply because they fall into one minority group or another; this is just plain WRONG. NO MATTER WHAT YOUR RACE, if you aren’t smart enough to make a high SAT score, and if your performance in highschool leaves you with a lower GPA than the white kid next door, then why should you be admitted? Nobody owes us anything. WE owe it to ourselves to either make the grade or bow out. We are not charity cases. This is a very sad state for the U.S.

    Less intelligent students are being admitted to colleges, while the more intelligent ones get passed over? This makes no sense, and it has nothing to do with race or equal opportunity. In fact, this is the most unequal concept that I am aware of. This is not a case of wanting equal treatment. It’s a case of expecting special treatment, based solely on race. And that my friends, is discrimination.

    T-barb

  16. K. Donovan August 24, 2005 at 2:08 pm | | Reply

    Why is it that everyone (or so it seems) is afraid to tell it like it is? It is not now, nor has it ever been discrimination to tell the TRUTH.

    FACTS:

    Blacks, in this country and in EVERY OTHER country, score consistently and drastically lower in IQ than whites and Asians (by a wide margin of 15-30 points). Thirty points applies to blacks living in Africa and 15-20 points applies to blacks of the U.S. This has not changed in nearly 100 years. Neither has the black average IQ risen in that amount of time.

    Blacks score 200 pts. lower on SAT’s that whites and Asians, and that does not change where black students have been raised in upper middle class areas and homes. “Disadvantaged” this and “biased” that. BS!!! If the differences in IQ and SAT scores had anything whatsoever to do with environment or social history, they why would these facts remain the same, regardless of WHERE the tests are given or HOW the black students were raised? The SAT scores aren’t just lower here or there. Take a moment. Do a quick web search and check it out for yourselves. SAT scores are lower for blacks in EVERY state and in EVERY highschool in this country. And well… I’ve already addresed the biased argument. That simply isn’t logical. The TRUTH (can you handle it?) is that whether the black student is raised by wealthy parents, poor parents, white adoptive parents, or black parents, the SAT gap doesn’t improve. In the country that African Americans originate from (Africa… duhhh) the average IQ is just 70. An IQ of seventy is just a hair above the mark for mental retardation standards. This is insulting, certainly. But what is one to do? It is the plain truth. Blacks struggle against a heritage/ancestry that is wrought with very low intelligence levels. We’ve seen this to be true since IQ testing in the 1920’s, and it is a fact that simply does not lend itself to dispute. It’s amazing to me that certain minorities will continue to argue, even when SAT and IQ scores show the above to be quite undeniable. As individuals, a person can do whatever he/she possesses the capability to achieve. But, on the whole, blacks just do not make the grade, according to both SAT and IQ testing.

    In short, no matter what your race, if you’re not intelligent enough to earn a high enough SAT score and GPA, then you don’t deserve to be allowed entrance. A college is not a place that should be expected to cater to charity cases and those of lower intelligence – white, black, latino, asian, or whatever.

    K Donovan

  17. Jimbocidman November 26, 2005 at 10:42 pm | | Reply

    Racism is racism is racism. Whenever ANYONE is judged on skin color rather than individual merit, that is discrimination. It is just as wrong to give a minority student extra credit as it is to hold that student back based soley on race. Affirmative Action gives blacks lower levels of required academic achievment than whites because blacks score lower than whites. In the interest of fairness then, shouldn’t asain students be held to HIGHER standards as they consistantly score higher than whites?

    There is one area in America where Achievement is the only measure and race is completley disreguarded: Professional Sports. Imagine trying to force racial quotas on the N.B.A.! Although the bottem line in sports is money the effect is a level playing field: N.B.A. teams don’t care where your grandparents come from, the question is: Can you play ball? Imagine the screams of outrage from the P.C. comunity if students were judged soley on Academic achievement! There is a medical school where the passing grade for black students is LOWER than the Failing grade for whites! The New York Philharmonic began using blind auditions in order to remove any hint of descrimination against women. The muscian auditioning was not visible to the judges, they simply played what they were told to play. When Affirmative Action reared it’s P.C. head, the N.Y. Philharmonic was told they need to hire more minorities. This ended auditions bases soley on musical talent. Are we better off now that the music is performed not by the best musicians but by an “acceptible” quota of racial diversity?

    Affirmative Action is nothing more than Government-sanctioned racial descrimination; telling us that blacks, hispanics and women are not as “good” as white men. Whoa!!! Didn’t we put an end to that type of thinking or is the government trying to feed us the same load of BS the KKK was pushing? The belief that blacks should be given preferential treatment because of slavery is assinine at best and socially destructive at it’s worst. I never owned any slaves; I don’t know anyone that was ever a slave. Holding the present generation responible for actions that occured over a hundred years ago is a sure recipe for unending hatred. In fact, the descendants of the slaves have the privaladge of being born into the least oppressive country in the world! While there are still many areas in which this great country needs improving, there is no other government that upholds civil liberties as strongly as ours.

    Judge me by my actions, not my race/sex/religion or ethinicity. Let us all stop focusing on accidents of birth and work towards a society that cares about WHO you are rather than where you came from.

  18. Jake Feinberg October 24, 2007 at 9:31 am | | Reply

    Most profesors say they feel the heat indirectly of course to push african american students through and make them pass so to say for the numbers. This just creates a society where black society is really laging and no one talks about it b/c its not socially correct but it’s going to blow up one day. And it needs to black society needs a wake up.

  19. Ritch February 4, 2009 at 12:54 pm | | Reply

    The historic injustice argument given above fails to consider what will actually overcome those disadvantages. Many minorities relish the fact that now, unlike ever before, they are afforded certain advantages over whites.

    Perhaps our history justifies this feeling, but logic and reason do not. Any sincere attempt to erase the present effects of past discrimination must recognize that discrimination in the form of affirmative action will only continue to sharpen the divide between the races. Clarence Thomas described quite well the effect that affirmative action had on his degree from Yale. The angry undertone of some of these comments demonstrates the real phenomenon of white resentment that will continue those harsh feelings.

    Affirmative action apologists fail to consider that beyond college, when institutional policy and bureaucracy can no longer bolster less-qualified individuals, the very fact that they did, at one point, advance someone that was not as qualified will ultimately harm that person. Given the admission stats above, many people are wary of visiting a black doctor- especially knowing that the white doctor almost certainly performed much better in order to beat the 1:111 odds. This deals a great blow to those minorities that are in fact qualified. If colleges actually served as filters to identify and produce qualified professionals of whatever discipline, the black doctor would not face that injustice. Patients would be able to have confidence in any person that has succeeded in school. While affirmative action may provide some solace, perhaps even satisfaction, it will not provide a solution.

  20. Pablo July 24, 2009 at 3:11 pm | | Reply

    Why do keep posting crap like this? Is someone mad because he did not get in? Quit your bitching you were not good enough so stop looking for a scapegoat.

  21. John Rosenberg July 25, 2009 at 4:17 pm | | Reply

    Why do keep posting crap like this?

    Perhaps, Pablo, because it’s true and needs to be recognized and dealt with.

    Quit your bitching you were not good enough so stop looking for a scapegoat.

    Well, it’s at least encouraging that you agree that the best applicants should be admitted, without regard to race or ethnicity. You do agree with that, don’t you? You must, or you couldn’t say that only those who are not “good enough” are not admitted.

  22. […] all UVA admissions is 1350, while the average for admitted black students is 1026.” Finally,?In Drastic Racial Statistics From UVa, I found that for the class entering in Fall […]

  23. […] also posted on this issue in the past. See:?“Drastic Racial Statistics From UVa,” “Graduation Rate Gap: Is The Glass Full, Or Half Empty?” and “The Dark Side Of UVa’s […]

  24. Ahmed Hassan September 13, 2018 at 1:05 pm | | Reply

    Everyone here wants to simply believe that African Americans are inherently dumber because they don’t want to be called out of racism. I pose a couple questions; first, if IQ scores truly determine functionality and intelligence, then how are African Countries filled with “mentally retarded” people functioning? One might sight the fact that a few are rather poor; however, there are plenty of people in the U.S with “higher intellect” who are poor. Furthermore, why is no one citing the Flynn effect. The low scoring African Americans are still “smarter” than your average 1950 caucasian male. Statistics are measurements and correlation doesn’t meet causation. Take a social psychology course and educate yourselves about how influential factors of confidence in ability, teaching dynamics, and etc are on things on I.Q before you spew this crap.

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